What did you take away from the March 5th meeting?

[John Pensyl]

After carefully listening to our own local authorities and biologists and spending months researching our own fisheries as well as fisheries across the nation I've come up with some very strong opinions as to what is best for our fishery and at the same time won't compromise angler opportunity.  The first and most important thing I took away from last nights meeting and its something we all should have already been aware of is this.  The spawning and nursery habitat on the Niagara is dwindling.  We need to do everything we can in the NEAREST possible future to make some changes.  There is fish out there now, seems to be a great class of 30-40 inch fish, lets give these girls plenty of options when they are ready to spawn.  The second thing that stuck in my mind was the reaction from Steve Lapan on post spawn fishing pressure.  This is where my opinion on regulation strongly comes in to play.  Just because it is legal does not mean it is right.  We have to be aware that some years with lower opening day water temperatures the fish may be still spawning or just finishing up the spawn.  Years when lake Erie has ice cover and the ice boom isn't removed until almost April or even into April, the temperatures are significantly lower than years like last year for example.  We should not consider this as a shot at a big post spawn fish before she makes it back out into the lake but maybe act as responsible anglers and give the fish a break for a couple more weeks out of the goodness of our hearts.  We have some great inland fisheries here in NY and taking advantage of those for the first few days or even couple weeks of the season would not be the end of the world. 

Down to the nitty gritty I guess...  What I support and why.

1.  Buffalo Harbor Season Dates        JULY 1-December 15

These big girls need the most protection post spawn.  If we are going to put in new nursery habitat and promote harbor spawning lets do everything we can to let them finish the job and recover.   Lets slide the season back, allowing them finish spawning and heal and give up a few days in the beginning hoping mother nature will cooperate and give us a few days at the end.  An opening day with very low harbor water temps would draw us back to the harbor and potentially do more harm than late season fishing for healthy fish ever could.

2.  East River Season Dates             Third Saturday In June- Dec 15th

My position on the East river is simple and always has been.  SPREAD OUT THE FISHING PRESSURE.  Musky anglers in the upper river continually pound the same areas.  The east river receives very little pressure and much of that has to do with its own protective/preventative measures against musky anglers.  Floating weeds and boat traffic in the summer make us shy away from the east side and toward Canadian waters all summer.  Muddy waters push us westward in the fall.   I don't support pushing back the opener in the East river to July first because it will only push the angling pressure further into the same already heavily pressured areas.  In my opinion the best possible solution and WHAT IS BEST FOR THE FISH is to unify the River season with Ontario and at no time force anglers in to one area.  This was one of the areas of concern last night, continued fishing pressure on one area and potential multiple catches on the same fish.  We are doing it now, STOP IT.  That being said, I feel that the change we should push for the most in the East river is the ban of Live bait for musky fishing.  The dec is right, when not used correctly it causes harm to the fish.  Guess what, most clients out on a charter have no idea what they are doing, trust me I know.  We will save more fall muskies with this action than if every NMA member were to stop fishing the fall completely.  I truly believe that these changes are whats best for the fish.  I would catch more fish if I pounded un1 and un2 all season than if I were to roam the river.  I am willing to spread out During December for the good of the fish.  The argument that I'm doing this for my own benefit is null in my opinion.  The best thing I can do for these fish each December, (because I am going to fish somewhere) is spread my fishing efforts across the fishery.

Thank you to everyone for giving this subject as much time and deep thought as you have.  This club has a great passionate group of people and in my opinion is on the cusp of something great.  Hopefully the passion can remain high and although everything has its valleys and peaks lets continue to work together to reach the top.   Scott Mckee, you most importantly, THANK YOU.  Listening to a different approach from the new guy has to be tough, but you've listened and that means a lot to me.  Thank you for everything you do, you are truly the most under appreciated man I have ever met and I hope as a club we are on our way to correcting that imbalance as well.

-John Pensyl

[Scott McKee]

Thank you for the very kind words John.  I feel the most appreciated when members participate, volunteer, attend and utilize. Thanks again.

[Tony Scime]

I haven't much time to respond, but I have given it much thought. A few comments before I go to man our booth at the Erie County Outdoor Expo.

1. On Scott Mckee: I agree with most of what John said, but I have one major criticism. Scott does too much and doesn't delegate enough. Of course, we all know why. So if anyone really respects and appreciates the work and effort Scott expends on our behalf, help him out. And not half-ass, but take a task and do your honest best.

2. Last night's meeting: I thought it was very helpful and informative. I don't have too much time at the moment, but I think it's important to make a couple points:

a. Any decision we make has no effect whatsoever on the rest of the Great Lakes. So, contrary to what has been previously stated, the guys in the St. Lawrence can sleep well knowing that we're not out to spoil their fun. This is strictly a Niagara River/Buffalo Harbor issue. We can have regulations separate and distinct from the rest of the Great Lakes.

b. The "proposal" to extend the season did not start with the DEC and they never requested opinions from anglers. The meeting last night was solely at our behest concerning a Muskies, Inc. request to have the Niagara River season extended. It was quite apparent that the DEC biologists and scientists, several with over 30 years of experience in managing wild musky fisheries, and possess perhaps an accumulation of knowledge and experience in this field unsurpassed in the United States, and perhaps even surpassing Canada's, are uniformly against an extension of the Musky season, and are at least in the talking stage of ending the extended season elsewhere (that is where politics and economics usually carry more weight than the opinions of biologists and scientists).  Boy that was a long sentence.

c. The issue presented was the extension. No question that there are more harmful times for a muskie to be caught and released. But it's always a cost/benefit analysis and we have to ask what benefits the most anglers without unduly harming the long-term health of the fishery. Allowing summer-time angling provides the most benefit to the most anglers. I don't think we'll ever be able to shut that down, nor do I think we should. If it were possible to delay the opener to July 1, or even the 4th Saturday, that would be a great trade-off worth exploring. Hell, we can all go fish Lake Erie the 1st Saturday anyhow - Port Colborne anyone? (sometimes I can't help what I say, and I should). Extending the season benefits the fewest anglers, but probably does less damage to the fish. If our focus is fishing opportunities, we keep it closed because we already have a season which provides extensive opportunity to the most anglers (of course, we can extend it knowing that although there is an unknown degree of added harm to the fishery, many believe it is minimal and worth the cost).

d. Mike Wilkinson. Mike has dedicated much of his 30 year career to the wise management of this musky fishery. He has been the force behind all the studies and habitat improvement projects. He has a better understanding of the science, concerns, issues and problems with this musky fishery than anyone ever has. He has done, by far, more to benefit this musky fishery and its musky anglers than anyone, ever. And he is obviously passionate. His advice weighs heavily on me and won't be easily rejected. In all honesty, I have too much respect and appreciation for Mike and everything he has done for us. I think we owe him due regard, and I don't think that I, personally, can stray from his advice. In fact, I'm quite sure that I can't (I really don't believe in free-will, but that complex philosophical discussion belongs in another forum).

But I think that I can still recognize and discuss the pros and cons. There are thoughtful and legitimate points coming from both sides. So I'll be back and will respond some more. And I definitely have to take a visit to planet Neptune!

Gotta go.

Tony

[jojo wilczewski]

Good Day

First I would like to thank the NYDEC for their time, effort and info. Thank you Mike, Steve, and Mike.

Second "what did I take from the March 5 meeting"?  The words of Steve L. hit me the most, " just because it is legal that does not mean it is the right thing to do"?   Also the words of  own Ray M. saying that we are/ I am a hypocrite. Saying  one thing and doing the opposite. These words will be with me for quite some time and both men have left me wondering  what is best for the natural resource , the Musky.

I will not be in such a hurry to fish the opener ever again, due to it being the most dangerous or risky time for a post spawn, stressed or injured from spawning fish.

I will not be in such a hurry to fish in December ever again, due to the low metabolism and slow healing of the fish.

Thus my votes will be for July 1 opener and November 30 close both in Niagara River and in Buffalo Harbor, artificial only.

I am also going to try and use what influence I have to notify the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources to do the same.

I though it was one NMA's best days/ meetings  ever.

Let us keep the good work.

ALA BALA BALA jojoout

[Josh Ketry]

What has the proposal been for the Lower? To leave as is?

[John Pensyl]

Yea leave as is. There's no research to support changing anything down there.

[Josh Ketry]

Wait Tony, you don't believe in free will?  NEW THREAD!  Let's do this =)

[Tony Scime]

I believe all our decisions are a result of everything that has come before us - our genetics, our culture, our experiences, our learning, our observations, our physical and mental capacities. Our brains absorb everthing and makes decisions that it believes is in our best interest. But the brain is limited by the aforementioned factors. But the brain can learn and process new information. Analyze and adjust our path. But bottom line, that's not free will. We cannot chose what the brain does not believe is in our best interests (which may include the best interests of the tribe - even wild animals will die protecting their young although that might not be deemed in the best interest of the animal doing the dying) at that moment in time the decision is made. And sometimes the information it relies on is wrong and/or its analysis is flawed. So sometimes it makes bad decisions (robbing that bank was really a bad idea, I thought as I sat in my prison cell. I don't think I'll do that again). But that's not free will. And sometimes brains become ill and it's decisions are irrational. But this a simplistic explanation. Bottom line, we cannot help who we are or what we do any more than any other animal. But that doesn't mean that some of us aren't "good" and some of us aren't "bad" or shades of both. But none of us are really morally culpable. But we can be dangerous and in need of control. Obviously we are much more advanced and complex. At least intellectually. But yeah, we should start a new thread.