Season Extension Discussion

[Tony Scime]

I've outlined discussions and decisions regarding season extension issues as published in prior NMA newsletters and correspondence. It might be helpful to the current discussion to review what has been proposed, debated and decided in the past. The ouline is attached here: Season extension discussions and decisions.pdf

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

    First of all let me clear up some misconceptions and statements directed toward me in this debate of the muskie season extension of the Upper Niagara River & Lake Erie.Statements that I'm only for any extended muskie season because I can extend my fishing charters to Dec 15th.I have stated that I'm in the proccess of shuting down Mostly Muskies Charters,I will do 35 charters for 2013 and only any makeup days in 2014.I have never guided in December and have no plans to do so.The membership of the NY M.I. Chapter 69 asked for a vote on the season extension,so as the board in any club is suppost to do we listened to the membership and had a vote.The membership voted to have the muskie season extended to Dec 15th.To be called out by the president of the NMA by this statement,

"Last week after the Muskies Inc., Chapter 69 vote on the

extension, I thought I might write about trust and credibility

between organizations, musky anglers and friends, and the

inherent difficulty of regaining this trust and credibility after

they’ve been broken. I thought it better not to voice my

opinion in detail over this matter until I discussed it face-toface

with the Chapter’s leaders"

This is statement is totaly wrong,it is the responsability of any clubs board of directors to listen to their membership and do as their membership wants.The NY M.I. Chapters position on the season extension for the upper Niagara River & Lake Erie along with the Season Changes for NY Inland Muskie Waters is what was asked of us by NY DEC Region 9 Office.Intitialy we substained from making a decision on the Upper Niagara River & Lake Erie,later it was brought to the chapter boards attention that we took a position without the membership voting on the issue.Just like the NMA board took the position to send their recomendations into NY Region 9 Office without their memberships vote of yes or no on the issue.I personaly do not believe that opening the 15 days of Dec are going to do any harm to the fishery at all.As a member of the NY M.I. Chapter 69 and as a NMA Board Member I have the right to vote anyway I like.As a member of the Erie County Fishery Advisory Board I must report what the majority of clubs and fishermen want,yes or no.The FAB has taken no position yet until we hear back from the Erie County Federation of Sportsmens Club and combine the results with the vote from the NY M.I. Chapter and the NMA.The FAB has no say,they can write a recomendation up to the Erie County Exec. and he can write a letter of support if he desires.The NY DEC Region 9 should have imput from all muskie fishermen when they make their decision on what wording to put up fo9r Public Review.The NY M.I. Chapter 69 was formed to primarly take care of the NY Inland Muskie Waters and the Stocking Program,the NMA is primarly taking care of the Niagara River & Lake Erie.But season changes are a state wide issue for all fishermen and all fishermen should have a voice.Then when I hear that I do not care about the fishery and I'm not conservation minded on top of all this,unreal! I have done lots to improve NY state muskie fishing,starting with sitting down with a small group of fishermen to start the NMA.For 8 years I have been raising funds to purchase extra fathead minnows to feed the muskie fingerlings for bigger growth at Prendergast Hatchery before stocking.Like the Beckman Nets I supply at wholesale(with no prolfit on my side) to the NMA.I supply them to every Muskies Inc. Chapter in the Northeast and Muskies Canada so that every muskie fishermen has the net they need to handle muskies safely and carefully.I think I have said enough,as you can see I'm not very happy!I will not hide from my statements ,I will be at the Febuary NMA Meeting.

[Tony Scime]

I ‘ve proposed a voting procedure which I believe will be supported by the entire NMA Board:

My proposal is to use the same process we used 10 years ago. Ballots can be sent out with the April newsletter (USPS or e-mail), and must be returned or post-marked (USPS) by the April meeting (alternatively,  ballots can be mailed out separately at an earlier date and returnable no later than the April meeting).  I prefer the newsletter route because it will allow members to publish their respective points of view, if they so desire. Ballots will not be opened until counted at the April meeting. We go from there based upon the final tally. The options can be the same as they were ten years ago:

SEASON EXTENSION PROPOSAL: Two questions are asked, one concerning an extension to December 15^th  for the entire Niagara River and Lake Erie System, and the second concerning an extension for the Niagara River only - which would keep the Lake Erie (Buffalo Harbor) season closing on November 30th. Both questions should be answered by each voter.

The husband and wife of each family membership are entitled to one vote each (all our memberships are family, but the votes must be separate and distinct by husband and wife). Single individuals do not get two votes. Each ballot must be signed by the voter.

Here’s how the ballot will be structured:

Place a check mark following either A or B for both Question 1 and Question 2:

QUESTION 1: Do you support or oppose extension of the Musky Season on the Niagara River and Buffalo Harbor to December 15th?

A. I SUPPORT the season extension for the Niagara River and Buffalo Harbor to December 15th: _____

B. I OPPOSE the season extension for the Niagara River and Buffalo Harbor to December 15th: _____

QUESTION 2: Do you support or oppose extension of the Musky Season for the Niagara River to December 15th only, and leaving the Buffalo Harbor season closing on November 30th.

A. I SUPPORT the season extension for the Niagara River to December 15th and keeping the Buffalo Harbor closing on November 30th: _____.

B. I OPPOSE any season extension of the Musky season for the Niagara River and Buffalo Harbor: _____.

The second question is optional and dependent on whether or not the DEC indicates that such an option is available, and whether or not the membership wants such an option (we’ll decide that at the March meeting).

The votes will be tallied in this manner: Question 1 will be tallied first.

If 1A has more votes than 1B, that is the end of the tally and 1A wins.

If 1B has more votes than 1A, Question 2 will be tallied.

Although I'm not overly passionate over the final decision (if you check what I said ten years ago in the December 2002 newsletter, I did not oppose the extension on the Niagara River, I only opposed the extension on the Buffalo Harbor), I am passionate on having a fair and informed process. Even with all the diverse and differing opinions in years past, we were always able to agree on the process necessary to arrive at a membership vote and decision. We always had full and open discussions. We always had proper notice that ensured the opportunity to participate. I have legitimate concerns over the toll on this board by what has taken place leading to this vote (which I'll fully address at a more appropriate time) and I think some of the "Extensionists" should be prepared to take over some very vital board positions necessary to keep this club going (if they're really interested in the latter).

I do need to provide this caution: Do not force a final vote on this issue at the March 5^th meeting.  I don’t believe that any Board member would support it, and  I do believe that forcing a vote on March 5^th  would be disastrous for the continued viability of the NMA. My concerns have nothing to do with the ultimate vote and each of you should vote for whatever you believe is best for the fishery and the fisherman. However, if a vote is forced (which would constitute lack of notice to and disenfranchisement of many members) I fear that we will lose Board members we can't afford to lose and there won’t be anyone ready, willing, and able to fill those positions. Basically, I fear that forcing a vote on March 5^th would be the death-knell of the Niagara Musky Association, and I hope (though I’m not convinced) that such is not the intention of anyone (conspiracy contagions may be spreading, but they take different forms in different organisms).

Your input is appreciated.

Tony

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Tony, The last paragraph was really uncalled for! No one is going to force a Vote at the March Meeting! You sound like your telling everyone if you do not get your way,your going to Quit! I do not believe the muskie world will come to an end if the season ends on Dec 15th,might mean two or three more days one might get on the water,doesn't mean it will be productive either.But fishermen fish for the chance to catch fish and the easiest time for release is in the coldest water.

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

Well said Tony! ! I absolutely agree mail the ballots! Ask Cuomo and all the NYS gun owners what happens when very important votes and topics are rushed!

[Tony Scime]

Larry:

I will not quit (I think we can afford to lose me, anyhow), and my concerns have nothing to do with how the vote ends up. I am not adamantly opposed to your position Larry, I just think it must be resolved in a fair and thoughtful manner. If your position wins, I'll likely fish in December, I'll just limit the amount of time doing it to one or two days.

Some members, I think, did want to force a vote at the last meeting, and I just want to let them know that it is ill-advised. My concerns are real and I don't want anyone coming in to force a vote without fully appreciating the potential consequences of such an action. But I hope you're right and nobody has such intentions.

Tony

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Tony,Ask Chuck Godfrey,he was at the ECFAB Meeting for Febuary,I tabled any vote by the ECFAB or ECFSC for 30 Days,if the Vote is April I will table it again for 30 Days until the April ECFAB Meeting that will be after the NMA Meeting.I would guess that a vote in April would be in the Un-Extentionists favor if Extentionists that have not renewed membership do not do so before the Vote! Have to Love Names!

[John Pensyl]

All for the ballot process but let me get this straight. People who have never musky fished, some who don't fish at all and have no interest in the sport except the support of their signifigant other are going to help decide how the NMA feels as a whole about December musky fishing? I thought the DEC was after angler imput here? Politics rule I guess, I'm sure the math has been done. I'm glad I'm able to submit my opinion directly to the DEC, they could care less if I'm married and I'd hope they take my experiences on the water into consideration and not count me as a half vote because I'm single.

[John Pensyl]

I would like to formally announce my conversion to Mormonism. I have 31 brides on order from Russia who will be arriving next week. Although their esox expierience is limited to spearing pike through the ice I am pleased to hear that the nma would like thier input on their fishery.

[Scott McKee]

Congratulations John!  I can't wait to meet the little ladies!  I suggest Claudette's catering for the reception or the fine folks at the Pearl Street Grill.  The Pearl does  have several floors and multiple facilities available if all the Mrs. Pensyl's don't get along.  You're going to need a bigger boat.

John Pensyl said:

I would like to formally announce my conversion to Mormonism. I have 31 brides on order from Russia who will be arriving next week. Although their esox expierience is limited to spearing pike through the ice I am pleased to hear that the nma would like thier input on their fishery.

[John Pensyl]

Bigger boat? For what? They don't musky fish, but for some reason their opinions matter to the NMA as much as people who do. Probably head back to cathololism shortly after the April meeting and ship em back to Moscow anyway.

[Carrie Keane]

John Pensyl - ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?! IS THIS SERIOUSLY A JOKE!?!?!?!?! SEXIST MUCH??????? Let me remind you of the MANY contributions from the female members of this club.  Hope Melnyk received the Memorial Award last year for her contributions to the club, this award is NO JOKE, Hope has sold so many raffle tickets, volunteered for every event, and put up with her husband and son’s fishing whims for a long time, even driving the boat when need be.  Beth MacSwan is a recipient of both the Memorial Award and a member of the Hall of Fame, she has contributed to many events and conservation projects throughout the years.  Vicky Scime has received the Bill Mendel President’s Award for all of her time spent working with the club, including her time spent editing and distributing the newsletter. Debbie Page, Joyce Stachowiak, Carole Kinner, Tara Kazmark, Veronica Kitchen, Kathy Mahtook, Gabrielle Arena, Liz Mann, Julie Ketry, Jamie Fortunate, Sharon Wittek, Dee Henning, Lorie Mundier, Edie Buss, and Sue Marfin, are only a few examples of the sorts of women that will be voting as “family/wife” votes.  These are paid family memberships.  Let’s add on…. Connie Adams, an honorary member, is a DEC wildlife biologist… her vote shouldn’t count?!?!?!  Do you have any idea how many of these women have contributed to the betterment of this club through donations of time, items, money, etc.?  Furthermore, to call anyone out on fishing “experience” is ridiculous!!!!!! Most, if not all, of these women have fished with their significant others; in fact Edie Buss’ biggest fish is 55”, how big is yours????? I personally have spent countless hours in support of this club, my house is bordering an episode of Hoarder’s due to storing all the things necessary for all the shows and fundraiser’s for this club.  I spent well over 100 hours on the water this year and caught 13 muskies in the process, and take EXTREME OFFENSE to you belittling the contributions of the female members of this club.  Sorry you’re single, not my fault, suck it up and pick a different battle my friend, the female members are here to stay and we HAVE A SAY in what the heck happens with this club. LIKE IT OR NOT!  I don’t know if you missed the memo John, but the Women’s Suffrage Movement ended years ago when the 19^th Amendment to the United States Constitution was passed.  Google Susan B. Anthony when you have time.  Since the inception of this club, women have held an integral role in the success of the organization.  Should women not be allowed to vote in important club matters simply because we are “family members”? 

Misogyny (pron.: /mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.

John Pensyl's Post: "People who have never musky fished, some who don't fish at all and have no interest in the sport except the support of their signifigant other are going to help decide how the NMA feels as a whole about December musky fishing?"

John Pensyl's Post: (In response to Scott's post) "Bigger boat? For what? They don't musky fish, but for some reason their opinions matter to the NMA as much as people who do. Probably head back to cathololism shortly after the April meeting and ship em back to Moscow anyway."

[Tony Scime]

John:

I have to believe you're kidding, but just in case:

These rules have been in our by-laws since day one (1994), and it has never been an issue with anyone before (and our bylaws don't give us any discretion, anyhow). Among other things, we have always strived to be a family oriented organization. I would think that those in favor of extension are just as likely to have spouses as those without. I haven't done the math, and have no idea how most members plan to vote. And I'm sure Larry and I weren't able to do the math  19 years ago  when we wrote the bylaws (in anticipaiton of this vote?) 

My wife might vote against the extension because she doesn't want me fishing another two weeks in December. On the other hand, she might vote for it because she'd like to have another two weeks of freedom. Or she might vote based upon my advise (I think that's quite common in a democracy). Or she might not vote at all. In addition, we have a lot of members who do not spend much time musky fishing. Should we limit voting rights to those who fish for muskies at least ten times per year? Or catch at least 5 muskies? I don't think so.

PLEASE tell us that you're not really serious.

The math has been done? Yes, the conspiracy contagion is spreading. But this is a new type of manifestation.

Tony
 
John Pensyl said:

All for the ballot process but let me get this straight. People who have never musky fished, some who don't fish at all and have no interest in the sport except the support of their signifigant other are going to help decide how the NMA feels as a whole about December musky fishing? I thought the DEC was after angler imput here? Politics rule I guess, I'm sure the math has been done. I'm glad I'm able to submit my opinion directly to the DEC, they could care less if I'm married and I'd hope they take my experiences on the water into consideration and not count me as a half vote because I'm single.