West River Nov 3rd

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Its official I guided a client in his boat today using TUBES! Patrick Beltz caught a nice 47 1/2" muskie! Cullen is also still on fire,he will tell you about his great day I'm sure!

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

  I may have posted "guided",I was out fishing for fun with Patrick Beltz in his boat.I did a fun trip with John Pensyl and another day with Patrick Beltz and Collen later the second week as well.They were not guided trips for money,they were fishing with other menbers of the NMA.So if trying to say I was guiding in December and that is why I'm pushing for a December Closing date for the NY waters of the Upper Niagara River & Lake Erie,You Are Wrong!Why doesn't the NMA Board allow the Membership to Vote on if they even want the Board pushing the Agenda of November 30th,Maybe they do not!

[Tony Scime]

Larry:

The NMA was originally told by the NY Muskies Inc that the DEC was proposing to move the closing to DEC. 15. But the DEC recently told us that they were considering proposing to move the closing date to November 30 for the entire Great Lakes, the exact opposite that NY Muskies Inc had told us. So I'm not sure what's really going on but I'd sure like to find out what the DEC's position is.

No matter what the DEC position is, I'd like to believe that all NMA members and any other interested parties would like to hear about the DEC's concerns as to either closing date. The more informed we are on the issues, the more intelligent our vote will be, I hope. Although I'm tending towards November 30, I surely don't know that I'm right and would like as much info from the DEC as possible. I don't believe that rushing to a vote on a very important issue is very wise, and reputable organizations simply don't rush such votes without first getting as much info on the issues as possible. So please don't suggest that we're trying to prevent a vote - we never have and never will (I hope) prevent a vote.

If the DEC has no real concerns about a DEC 15 closing date they would, in effect, be supporting your position. So let's wait and see what they have to say.

Personally, I've always believed that the upper Niagara River and Buffalo Harbor is a small urban fishery easily accessible to many anglers. It is not vast and remote like so many other Ontario fisheries, nor as difficult to fish as the St. Lawrence. Because of its small size and easy access, I think that it is more vulnerable to fishing pressure than larger and more remote fisheries. For that reason, I always believed that it needed more, and not less, protection than fisheries such as the St. Lawrence. It's just too easy.

If the season is extended to Dec 15, it would be your lawful choice to charter and I wouldn't be in position to criticize you for doing so.

Finally, we do have a precedent for this type of vote - by written ballot. I would think that we would follow that precedent.

Tony

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Tony,When this all first came about the NY DEC was for a uniform Dec 15th date,I do not know what changed their mind. I know you and Scott have been talking to Mike Clancy on the issue.So I guess the best all the fishermen who believe the closing date should be December 15th, is to write a letter or email the NY DEC Region 9 Office with their position and why.Then show up in numbers on March 5th to make their position to be heard.I still believe there are more NMA members that would have liked to have seen the NMA Board of Directors spend as much time trying to get a December 15th Closing Date ,then showing up with the NY DEC at the March 5th Meeting already having a possition of November 30th.Pushing only one agenda,the one that the majority of the NMA Membership may not be for.

[Tony Scime]

Larry:

I have not communicated in any way with anyone from the DEC regarding this issue (at least not since it was last brought up many years ago). I don't think that the Board should be pushing a vote for either position until we have more information. I think pushing a December 15 closing date without more info and without hearing from the DEC is irresponsible. We'd just be pushing for extending exploitation of the fishery without concern for the consequences. We have always been better than that. I believe that going slow on this issue and getting as much info as possible is the prudent and responsible approach.

Tony 

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Tony:

I guess we will find out the details of where the NY DEC is leaning toward at the NMA March Meeting.But then again if the NMA Membership is for December 15th,the NMA Board of Directors would be expected to go along with the membership in that presuit.There are many more things that effect the muskie fishery in a negative way that can be improved on,fishing 15 days in December will have very little if any effect on stressing the muskies.Maybe more fishermen need to give the Harbor a break the 1st two weeks of the season and not stress post spawn muskies or even some fish that may have not even finished spawning yet.Starting season for Lake Erie alone of 1st Saturday in July would do a lot to improve the fishery!The river would still be open,so everyone could still fish.I'm very happy to see the NMA moving toward Habitat Restoration in the Buffalo Harbor,that is the true answer to a better fishery!

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

PAT FOX 54” NOVEMBER 29™

RICHARD MINICH 53”

OCTOBER 25th

MARK REICHERT 52.5” OCTOBER 29™

MIKE SWAN 52.5”

NOVEMBER 25th

AARON SHIRLEY 52” NOVEMBER 11™

SCOTT MCKEE 52” NOVEMBER 26™

JOHN HENNING 51.5” JUNE 17™

HOWARD WAGNER 51.5” JUNE 27™

RANDY BEINER 51.5” NOVEMBER 30™

CHRISTIAN TOTTER 51” JUNE 18™

FRED LANGDON 51” NOVEMBER 28TH

How many of the bigger muskies listed here were caught when the water surface temp was from 46 degrees to 42 degees? Take a Look! Richards was at 58 degrees at night in stained water lake and cleaner water coming out of the Buffalo River.But maybe 2 were caught in warmer water in the fall out of how many above.

[Scott McKee]

You are correct Larry!  The answer is 58-degrees to today's NMA Fun Quiz: What was the water temperature Richard Minich reported when he caught his 53-inch Harbor SLOB?

To answer your question, from the list of anglers you provided, there were four fish caught when the surface temperature was between 42-degrees and 46-degrees: Mike Swan's, Randy Beiner's, Fred Langdon's and mine.  Pat Fox's fish was reported to be caught when the surface temperature was 40-degrees.  Mark Reichert's came in 57-degrees and Aaron Shirley's hit in 55-degrees.  Obviously the water temperature was considerably higher when John Henning, Howard Wagner and Christian Totter caught their fish in June.  Three of 2000's Top Ten fish were caught in June, three were caught when the water temperature was between 55 and 58-degrees, four when the water temperature was between the range you specified and one when the water was colder than that range.  In 2000 the Top Ten boasted eleven very large fish, more than half of which were caught when the water was warmer than 46-degrees.  2000 is also the only year in the Top Ten's history when a 50-inch musky didn't qualify.

Isn't trivia fun!

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

Wow awsome cool info guys!!! As a newer musky angler I would have thought that cold water was needed to produce the true slobs but apparently not!!! Scott this gives me hope for a slob by Nov 30th....I guess we dont really need to extend the season to catch slob!!

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

You need to go back and look again,there were (6) SIX Muskies caught under 45 degree water temp from 54" to 50" in Nov 2000. Then start by only counting 50"+ Muskies caught in water temps above 46 degees from 2000 through 2011,4 years there were NONE caught in November at all and those years the water temp never got to 46 degrees.Gee I wonder if those years were recent.

[Scott McKee]

I only counted from the list of anglers and fish (the 2000 Top Ten) you provided above, using the temperature parameters you initially listed (46 to 42-degrees).   I'm done, and I apologize for the condescending tone of my previous response.

[Stephen Glassic]

Is there any place to view the pictures of the top ten from 2000 all together?

[John Pensyl]

It's funny, I'm not looking for ice water to produce big fish. What I'm looking for is warm water when the water temperatures are in a transistion. The same exact thing I look for in the spring when pounding the lake Ontario shorelines for browns. Warm water pockets amongst cold water hold bait. Predators love bait. From what I can tell the harbor has lost its abilitly to consistantly draw bait. Gin clear water, colder water then outside the harbor walls most days actually, isn't exactly the dinner bell that attracts fish. As miniscule as the changes caused by loss of warm water discharges or less clear water of the past seem to be, without them we seem to draw bait and therefore predators on a much less consistent basis. Do those predators still exist? I for one believe they do, just as the bait that once filled the harbor still exists, but they are here far less often. We must rely on mother nature to provide us with the right set of circumstances to give us a shot at catching the goliaths that once called the harbor home and now only stop in and visit. There were some very big fish caught outside the harbor walls this year.