Dec 5th Fish Report

[Scott Kitchen]

Jo Jo and I spent most of the day (from about 7 AM till around 3 PM) in the cold west north west wind on the Ontario side of the upper.  The water looked nice, about 5 to 7 feet of visibility and a warm emerald green, but the fish did not want to play.  There where white caps in the triangle for most of the day and we did not see another boat at all.  Still nice to fish with Jo Jo for the first time (he brings cookies and sandwiches, yea me!).

[33sjfo56qd2lf]

I think talking to those guides in the lower on how to handle fish is a great idea John.  I think we should invite them to a meeting so we can counsel them on how to handle those fish in the lower with care. 

I am still hoping Muskies Inc keeps trying to get a year around season passed for all inland bodies of water.  99% of people that will be fishing for them during those months are going to be serious musky anglers who know how to handle them anyway.  The people I'm worried about are not musky anglers and they are going to get the incidental musky anyway.

[John Pensyl]

When ur used to wacking a fish on the head and throwing it in a cooler its hard to turn that switch off I guess. Just look at all the lake trout pics from the last 2 months. Lake trout season is closed yet they hang them from bogas all day and take pics with blood running down their sides from their gills. A little informational kiosk down there that the clients could read about damage from vertical holds and keeping fish out of water might make a small difference in how the fish are handled. Biggest problem down there for the musky fishery is the power platform. Every time I've ever been down there in June and july I've seen muskies. Kids try and snag them, kids do snag them, guys keep them, they get slammed on the grate. Some readily available reading down there could make a huge difference. Most of those guys have no idea they aren't stocked and easily replacible .

[Joe Dolan]

Adam - I have been to most of the meetings for NY Musky Inc, and have not heard any talk about opening the season for inland lakes to year round. 

They did send a letter to the DEC with the recommendation of extending the season to December 15 and starting the season in May (but there is some discussion still going on about if the start date should be the third saturday in may, or may 1).

[John Pensyl]

I'd be very pleased with an added month on Chautauqua. I honestly don't want to fish for spawners and have musky eggs spewing out on the boat, but everything I've read and egg collections from the past few years seem to confirm the spawn is done down and the hatchery has their eggs from cassi way before the season opens. I'm looking toward to figuring out the late may early June casting bite on chautauqua in the coming seasons.

If there are nice days in December musky guys are going to fish, we can fight to spread ourselves out or we can all pile in to the west river and hopefully by the end of the 2 weeks ill have all of the fish named!

[John Miller]

Here is some more opinion for you. I wish the season was never extended in the Upper. I'm with Scott M., error on the side of caution. I am all for a shorter season. I love musky fishing as much as, if not more than anyone. But I dont feel the need to constantly pound the small fragile fishery. I'm sure theres a lot of opinions on what pounding a fishery constitutes, but to me it has been happening a lot in the last few years. don't get me wrong I fish a lot, especially during the summer because I have more time then. If I fish three days a week I think that's a lot. If we love the fish so much, then everyone should give them a break once in a while. Let their lips heal. Even responsibly released fish will suffer from stress and slime coat removal. I rather See the fishery shortened to protect the fishery. I can live with 12 - 24 fish a season, I don't need to try to hook every fish in the system, sure it would be great, but I don't think that's what's best for the fishery. I guess I'm trying to say let's make decisions that are intended to protect the fishery. Error on the side of caution and be willing to sacrifice a little. No one can deny that the less the fish are captured, the better off our fishery will be. Again I agree with McKee when he says he wouldn't give all musky anglers too much credit for their release skills and ethics. A lot of people need to kill fish before they listen to and apply new knowledge. We still have guys using flouro casting leaders even though they have been informed of flouro weaknesses. Once they get bit off, then they decide to use wire...maybe. If guys think the fishery on the West side is getting pounded when fish are congregating to over winter in preparation for a spring spawn, then they shouldnt launch their boat day in and out. I don't think extending NY waters in Upper is the answer.

[jojo wilczewski]

  Good Day

  I think we bring up four important points. One, Un 1 and 2 is fished  heavily all season. Two,  acidental angler mortality; averages 30 %, if we are good and practiced I hope we lower to 10%. Which means we kill  at least one fish for every ten we catch?  The less caught the less damage to the system. Three,  the Niagara is one of the only truley natural self sustaining poulation in the country. It has not been stocked in many many years.  I hope it never has to be again. Four, Canada would not shorten the season  when we asked. They chose to leave it open. I only fish 100- 150 hours a year for Musky  and I have to live with killing 1 or 2, or quit fishing for them while the season is open. I do all I can to preserve the fishery and live with only fishing 5.5 months a year. I have tagged, fin clipped, release reported (for 16 years), angler diary studied(for 16 years) , taken DEC biologists to the islands, taken biologists from the science museum to the islands,  cleaned the islands, taught release classes at shows, other clubs, fairs and ramps, helped to acquire and hang  educational signs at the ramps, made, distributed and taught others to use solid metal leaders, helped to lengthen the size limits and preserve the islands when they were eroding away.

I fought and would again, to shorten the season even more, but it is not...

I do what I can.

ALA BALA BALA jojoout  

[John Pensyl]

We're not going to convince Ontario to shorten their season. Fishing pressure is only going to continue to increase. The move now that makes the most sence to help these fish is to spread out that fishing pressure. I haven't been up there once in December and I bet there haven't been 15 fish caught total. But when there is nice warm day in December and people take advantage of it there's no reason why they should all be stuck in Canadian waters. Why be stuck in 2 foot chop when its glass on the other side. There's far better ways to protect his fishery then stop a handful of fish from being caught in US waters and prevent 1 bite off every thousand fish from floro leaders. Yes I use solid steel while jigging but we are Jumping over dollars to get to nickels here folks. You truly believe the harbor fish are over pressured????? They spend their lives in the lake, without a man made attractant like a warm water discharge we have to rely on nature to provide the right conditions to make these fish targetable again. 15 extra days might provide those conditions once or twice. Even then we'll be lucky to catch a few fish.

[33sjfo56qd2lf]

I don't know how anyone can consider the Upper Niagara a fragile fishery when people have 8 and 10 fish days. But again, it's just my opinion.  We all take good care of fish.  I bet I could count on one hand the amount of people that fish musky in the upper river outside of the NMA.  

How could the Niagara be more fragile than the Allegheny, which is open year around?  The Allegheny is pounded by far more musky anglers than the Niagara.  You could take 150 miles of the that river and it wouldn't add up to the size of the Upper Niagara and yet the Allegheny is a phenomenal fishery.  

Just trying to make a point.  I'm not trying to upset anyone here, we are all entitled to an opinion.  

[jojo wilczewski]

Good Day

The Allegany gets thousands ( I think 8 thousand) of new fish stocked every year just in New York. We once estimated our fishery in the upper at around five thousand total?

We are right it will never be alot of fishing in the river in Buffalo in December. When the harbor was on in the late 90's there were more out of state boats then NMA boats. We had one boat hand the fish around with every guy getting a pic and one changing his shirt for the pic for a second pic??? Some from other states are not as " nice to the ladies as we are".

It is more to error on the side of caution and not take a chance. We have plenty of stocked  waters.

I am always up for a good discussion. Not  looking for a disgustion.

ALA BALA BALA jojoout

[John Pensyl]

Most Niagara musky fisherman don't even know where the east river is. How is it detrimental to a fishery to take pressure away from the most heavily pressured area?? I want to fish where nobody fishes all summer anyway! Obviously we're going to fish the river in december, I'm not taking my boat way down the west river in the winter. It's much safer for me to go down river here on the US side to find unpressured fish and under utilized water.

[John Miller]

Adam like you say, I dont believe that any of these statements are meant to be offensive or single out anyone it's good to hear and consider the opinions of others, so let's have thick skin fellas. i dont think we can compare stocked fisheries with our natural reproducing fishery. also, I do believe we have a fragile fishery and hope/pray we dont have to see it fail first hand. if you dont think it is fragile then explain why we had so many years of low catch rates of small fish, yea its on a rebound but dont take it for granted. I waited a long time for the fishery to show positive signs of a come back. i dont want to see the population crash again due to....well perhaps greed or maybe failure to be mindful of its fragilty. the minimal pressure in the East is due primarily to it being a weedy mess most of the season and often dirt after big fall winds and rain water flowing out of Buffalo River . pensyl is right it gets little pressure most of the season. I like the idea that its hard to fish most of the season AND closed in December. it's not the worst thing in the world if we have areas in the system that hold fish and are hard to target. opening the NY Side of the river in December benefits fishermen more than fish, so I rather not see it done. It's my belief that the fish can use a lot of recooperation time before Spring spawn. you may ask how much difference may 15 days make....I don't know, but I am sure it is better for the population. The harbour is a whole other beast in itself. i am not convinced that there are a lot of fish that return to the Harbour to winter. Maybe, maybe not. lets protect them just in case they need it. those Harbour fish are available all season somewhere out there. If we're looking for a real fishing challenge we could go searching the lake for them.

[John Pensyl]

With the east river closed people are still going to fish the river on a nice day in December. Once again why add additional pressure to un1 and un2 if we can spread that out to fish who receive very little angling pressure. It was just said that it receives very little pressure due to condtions. The other day would have been a great opportunity to give the west a break and fish the east. And the whole "if we can't catch them in them June thru November in the harbo we might as well not catch them" attitude is a waste. You don't believe those fish are out there?? Just ask a guide like Eric graves who is out there every day in May how many big muskies are roaming those walls. Just like the pike, bass, perch and walleye, the muskies have better places to hunt come summer.