Dec 5th Fish Report

[Scott Kitchen]

Jo Jo and I spent most of the day (from about 7 AM till around 3 PM) in the cold west north west wind on the Ontario side of the upper.  The water looked nice, about 5 to 7 feet of visibility and a warm emerald green, but the fish did not want to play.  There where white caps in the triangle for most of the day and we did not see another boat at all.  Still nice to fish with Jo Jo for the first time (he brings cookies and sandwiches, yea me!).

[John Pensyl]

Why mess with it? When those regulations were put in place most years the entire month of November might provide the right conditions to draw in these goliaths and give anglers the chance at the encounter they worked hard for. Now we finally had a season where temps did drop for a few days and give us a glimpse at what's out there. Spending my life on lake Ontario I've spent a lot of time staring at a graph, and I know a four foot predator when I see one. When that bait moved in there were tons of them. Big hooks everywhere and still very few of them moved inside the actual harbor walls providing the "shooting fish in a barrel" scenario that allowed for so many fish to be caught years ago. Our new fishery, may only be able to draw these fish in tight a few days each season, even this year water temps only dipped into the low 40s for a couple days and then bounced right back up. There are captain's on the st Larry that pray to see 39 deg each season. We are lucky to see a few days each Nov below 45. These fish are receiving zero fishing pressure, a more days of plows dragging past them and maybe if the stars align a couple fish caught and released isn't going to hurt the future of this fishery.

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Most years late November you can't get on the water due to high wind & waves,early December can be more of the same,with snow.This alone takes away from late November days and early December days you can accually fish.I have also seen years where the surface water temp has still been 50 degrees at the end of November.Ok we are going to have a 54" sizelimit on both the canadian side and NY side of the Upper Niagara river in 2014.So why not open the NY side till December 15th and go to the One Rod Rule per person rule for Muskies year round in Lake Erie and all the Upper Niagara River.Then there would be less pressure all the time,but a chance to fish later in cooler waters to Dec 15th.The One Rod Rule would make all the out of state fishermen go to the Lower Niagara  or St. Larry where they can use 3 rods each! Going to One Rod per person would do more for protecting the fishery then not allowing the 15 days of December,that I have seen totally brown water for the whole 15 days in the past! This would make both the Canadian & NY waters have the same Regulations!The SBH will not have the Launch open for December either ,so you would have to travel up from the river.

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Lets see how conservation minded most of us are,how many would be willing to go to One Rod per fishermen for the Whole Season and then have a uniform set of regulations for both Canadian & NY waters of Lake Erie and the Upper Niagara River,opening on 3rd Saturday in June,closing on December 15th?

[John Pensyl]

No wonder nothing ever gets changed. You boys just refuse to simplify anything. It's easy, all nys greatlakes waters 3rd sat in June until Dec 15th. This aligns everything, keeps warm weather fisherman happy, Rod happy fisherman happy, and gives everyone the opportunity to pursue lake Erie fall trophies. More regulation is not the answer. Seems as tho everyone is out to put regulations in place that fit how and when they want to fish and no one is willing to compromise. I'm really starting to understand where the leave well enough alone attitude is coming from here. Most of you who never leave the head of the river anyway could care less about December fishing opportunities anywhere else. You have the only water u care to fish already available those dates. How can u measure if 1 small change has an effect when u make many at once? The program in place works, let's just try something a little diff at the end. I'm looking to modify the last paragraph, not re-write the whole book.

[Frank Stachowiak]

"You boys just refuse"

 

"attitude"

mmmmmmm

 

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

The NY DEC Open Discussion in Febuary will be where this is settled!11 boats yesterday did not have a problem with over stressing the West river,not one fish caught!

[John Pensyl]

Not here to make friends Frank. All I hope to do with my words is open up the topic and allow people to share different views on the subject. I figure that's better than the mumbling and griping about it that never gets heard now. You can ignore the fish in the lake and allow them to grow old and die without ever being caught or you can put in some time and try to take advantage of the opportunities they provide us as sport anglers. It would be nice to fish the east river a few times a year without constant boat traffic, piles of weeds or a floatilla of boats set up on prime casting water. I couldnt care less about how many rods I troll with but without some evidence 1rod will help the fishery somehow why make the change? You dedicated trollers drop a lot of cash on gear I'm sure you'd like to use each season. Obviously it bothers people as to how it comes across on the internet so you can choose to take it as a fresh perspective or as attitude but that's up to you. The NMA definitely has a little "good old boys club" feel if you haven't noticed. Worked 15 years ago, why change now.

[Frank Stachowiak]

What I've noticed is ..... well, I'll remember what my Mom told me 65 years ago..... "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything"

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

Omg this is still going on!!!!!!????? Any takers on the underwater basket weaving club? Ps im bringing boxing gloves and mouthguards to the January meeting!

[Scott McKee]

No need to bring mouth guards and gloves Mike.  We will discuss the topic calmly and rationally at the January Meeting.

[John Miller]

mmmmm ?

Frank Stachowiak said:

What I've noticed is ..... well, I'll remember what my Mom told me 65 years ago..... "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything"

[Tony Scime]

John P:

With much respect for your arguments:

1. Nothing ever gets changed? When I started muskie fishing on the Niagara almost every fish caught over 30 inches was a dead fish. The minimum size on the Canadian side was 28 inches, and you could keep 2. Guys were keeping 3 fish per trip. 40 inch muskies were very rare. Selling catch and release of large muskies was not easy. Strawberry Island was eroding away. I think a lot has changed, but it didn't happen over-night and it wasn't always easy.

2. We've seen a lot of negative environmental changes on the aquatic ecosystem the past 20 years. Those changes did considerable damage to the local muskie population. The river has bounced back the past 4 years or so, but there's no reason to believe that the recovery is permanent. I still believe that the west river past the triangle is only a remnant of what it was during the 20th century. That includes the shipyards. Nor is the east what it was.  So there's still a long way to go for it to support the fishery it had just ten years ago. But under the current ecosystem, it probably will never return to its' past. As a club dedicated to the enhancement and preservation of the Niagara River Musky fishery, we've always tried to err on the side of the fishery. Changing that philosophy may be a change, but not necessarily a positive one. I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers, but I do believe that less pressure on a musky fishery is better for the fishery than more pressure. And I think that the large females - the ones we need to perpetuate the fishery -need the most protection when they are most easily caught. That is in late fall and spring.  

3. As far as the harbor is concerned, opening the season an additional 15 days to enable us to catch the few remaining remnant fish seems inconsistent with the philosophy of conservation which has guided us since our inception. Those remnant fish may be the only hope we have of the harbor fishery ever having a real future (I realize that all hope may be futile). Although I strongly believe in catch and release, I don't believe it is perfect, and I do believe it can do damage to a fishery. Large fish are most susceptible to being injured by mis-handling, or even by the best handling. Nor do I believe that there are many muskies out in the lake that simply don't come into the harbor anymore. I used to hear that 15 years ago. I believe in empirical evidence and there isn't any supporting that position. If all those big marks you see on your screen were muskies, you'd be catching them. Because when they were muskies, we always caught them, no matter what the weather. And we caught them all season long. As the population died off the catching became less frequent, and mostly concentrated in November - a period when the large females would winter-over in the harbor - a period when they need the most protection. I simply believe that expanding exploitation opportunities on a depressed population is inconsistent with everything we've always stood for.

4. The only "old boys" in this club, I think, are Larry Jones, Tom Page, and me. And I'm not as old as the other 2. All the other "old boys" of the club quit musky fishing a long time ago. Most of the "veteran" guys in this club have been musky fishing for "only" ten or 15 years.  But in that time they've experienced the good and the very bad. They have fished through many of the ecological changes that have effected this fishery. So I think their experience has provided them with a sound basis for their opinions and has to be given some respect, although I understand why you might disagree.

5. There's always a balance between conservation and exploitation. You are asking us to alter our view of that balance. I hope you understand why many of us are hesitant. I don't know that my position is the right one, but I think that it has served us well. But I do realize that my opinion may be tainted by what I perceived in the past as being very distasteful and harmful fishing practices - the incessant, relentless, and selfish pounding of what was once an incredible musky fishery. I found it disheartening. But I will try to be open to your views. I try not to be too old to learn.

Tony