West River Nov 3rd

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Its official I guided a client in his boat today using TUBES! Patrick Beltz caught a nice 47 1/2" muskie! Cullen is also still on fire,he will tell you about his great day I'm sure!

[Scott McKee]

John, I hope the other members are as fired up about this string as the nine participating seem to be!  I wonder if it's boring the hell our them?

Let's get organized, and pursue conservation projects aggressively.  To paraphrase President Kennedy's 1962 speech at Rice University: We choose to enhance and restore habitat in the Buffalo Harbor and Niagara River, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win.

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

I'm all in for any Habitat Restoration! Getting ready to unload truck at the Butler Fishing Show.

[John Pensyl]

Gives me something to read in between stops my long busy days in schwanny land. Plus I feel guilty when ur hard work goes days without any action. I'd stir up more controversy to talk about but my talk of eating muskies has me genuinely concerned the musky gods may cut me off next season.

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

Heading to the butler show in am with adam and jerry miller? Let me know if any of you fearless musky wranglers and B*KK*KE BAD BOYS want me to pick up baits for u!

[Tony Scime]

John P:

You have me so fired up that if this were November I'd be out in and around the harbor every day just to prove a point. But I'm not really sure who's or what point. But hell, there'll be a point to prove!

Tony

[John Jarosz]

Scott M...well, I for one am fired up & I'm certainly not bored, but I'll jump into this if I ever feel educated enough.  The more rationale I read, the more confused I get.  Both sides make sense

So, if some are for keeping the present season, some for extending to Dec 15th, some for "shifting it down the calendar" because of the stress caused by warm water,  why not a "split season" where the muskies are in season in a delayed beginning (post spawn), out of season in Aug (warmest water & most stress) and an extended end date?  On the Rez, the Senecas have closed fishing for steelies from Jan 1st to Mar 1st, so you can fish fall & Spring, but not in-between.  For me, my passion is for what's best for the muskies as I think everyone's is.  I just need to listen more to everybody, including the lined-up guest speakers.  But thanks to ALL you guys for your posts.  It's great, thoughtful reading & even greater rationale.

[Tony Scime]

Guys:

I just want to give a preview of an article I'm writing/researching for the March newsletter. This is from our database and has always been available for our members (if they are willing to do the work). The water temps are from NOAA, and tend to run lower than our member's surface temp records.

"The nine Novembers with the lowest closing date temperatures  (42.6 average) accounted for 168 muskies. The nine Novembers with the highest closing date temperatures (46.9 average) accounted for 185 muskies. I ask the delayed migration theorists: if the nine closing dates with the highest closing date temperatures  accounted for more muskies than the nine seasons with the lowest (and the difference was significant, 4.3°), how can an average November temperature rise of less than 1° cause delayed migration of muskellunge into the Buffalo harbor?"

Like I've repeatedly stated (ad nauseum, I know), there is no delayed migration. The evidence overwhelmingly supports this conclusion. If muskies no longer come into the harbor, it has nothing to do with water temperature, and extending the season to Dec. 15 will not bring them in. No matter how I work the numbers, water temps have not risen to such an extent to cause any noticable change in migration tendencies. Either the muskies stay out in the lake for reasons suggested by John P., or they don't exist in significant enough numbers. Either way, fishing to December 15 will not make the fishing any easier.

I know these "facts" might be inconsistent with one's opinions based upon years of experience. But we need to be realistic and honest with ourselves in how we formulate our opinions.

Accordingly, if extending the season results in a risk of injuring the fishery further (maybe it's beyond repair), we shouldn't extend the season. If we don't think it's worth trying to rehab, well, I hope nobody really has given up hope.

Tony

[John Miller]

As much as I feel we need to hear the DEC's opinion on the matter prior to making a decision, I don't feel that they can say anything that would make me change my opinion.  Even if the DEC supports an extension I will not vote for it.  The truth is that if the season ever were extended, then I am sure I would fish a day or two during the extension.  I fished 1hr and 40 min during the extended season in the river last year.  As Scott K stated at a previous meeting, "I need seasons to protect the fish from me".  I have an insatiable desire to fish.  Does that make me weak? Yea!  I am a fishing addict.  Let the fat lady sing at the end of November and I'll hike some frozen streams for steal over the winter.  Let the skis live a natural unpressured life from the end of November until the third Saturday in June. 

John P. and Larry, I think you guys mentioned that maybe 15 fish were caught in November around the Harbour walls.  Considering there were very few boats and anglers targeting these fish, then thats pretty good.  If there were another twenty boats fishing the Harbour area throughout November, then it is probable that quite a bit more fish would have been caught.  Its a low density fishery in the Harbour and as Cullen Veider knows....it can be very rewarding.    Less presure = healthier population

[John Pensyl]

Tony, my theory isn't that of lower water temps attract fish. It's that warm water amongst cool attracts bait that attracts fish. If members found warmer water inside the walls than the NOAA found out in the lake it supports that perfectly. Today you need wind to push cold water to our end to create that warm water bubble inside the walls and attract fish into the harbor, this rarely happens. Obviously I was only able to witness it for 4 short days in the harbor but the difference in bait and fish populations below the surface was amazing. When temps reversed and the harbor held cooler water that the lake once again it was a absolute ghost town. Blank graph. I keep asking and all I hear about is how the warm waters of the buffalo harbor were a bait magnet during the hayday. The same scenaio sets up in the spring below the power vista in the lower, warm water from the reservoir pumps into the lower river and loads with shad and Muskies. Muskies that arent there when temps are equal or reversed. Thoughts?

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

John P. You Got It!

[jojo wilczewski]

Good Day Boys

Nice discussion, I like the ideas and the passion.  I will not vote for the season extension, I feel it is better to err on the side of reason, caution and protection.  I do not think either fishery has enough recruitment and very few young of the year.  The most important fact.  Let's hope all this passion persuades everyone to take the time and fill out a Diary Study. It is where we get our facts.  I am going to take some time, not much,  in the spring to search for some clues in the harbor.  Even though I have not been there in many years. To many trolls for me.

Another Kennedy quote abused by jojo.

Do not ask what the NMA ,the DEC or the Musky can do for you.

Ask what you can do for them??? 

ALA BALA BALA jojoout  

 

[John Pensyl]

Great reasons jojo. Much respect. While on ur way out to the harbor this spring stop n crack open a few of those cormorant eggs on ur way. If anybody wants to push for an open season on them things I'm a pretty good shot. You better find some really hot peppers because I have a feeling when we add those birds to ur chilli its gonna be hard to cover up the fish flavor. Don't be afraid to pop the gills on any pike u find with ur hj-14s also. I bet they know what musky meat tastes like.

I'll give those little muskies a fighting chance!