Proposed DEC Reg's

[John Jarosz]

I found the link below for the text of the proposed DEC Reg change for DEC launch sites.  I hope it's the right one. It applies to launching & leaving DEC sites:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/95111.html

From what I can interpret, here are some of my comments (in italics):

1. Everything in or on the boat, trailer, equipment, etc that can be seen with the human eye has to be visibly free of invasive vegetation or species. (if I miss seeing it, does that mean it wasn't visible to me?)

2. Bilges, livewells, baitwells & the boat have to be drained.  (If there is microscopic vegetation, i.e. not visible, it will still get transported anyway, so what is accomplished?  Is "visible" more dangerous than microscopic?).  My comment here is dangerous as it might  drive them to institute disinfecting.  I might leave this one out.

3. There is a statement that says "No person shall conduct any business...offer or expose for..hire...at a boat launching site." (Does that mean that fishing charters can't have advertisements on their trucks?)

4. These regs are only supposed to restrict the transport of plants & animals, but doesn't stop it. (it sounds a lot like the VHS baitfish regs to me)

5. Maybe I'm missing a link to another document, but I can't find anything about washing or disinfecting boats & trailers before leaving. I also didn't see anything on the 30 day period between launches in different water bodies that was talked about.  I prob just missed it because it's link after link after link with these convoluted gov't docs. 

If anyone finds that link, can you please post?

Additionally, to me at least, it looks like they're going after the little guy while allowing ocean going ships empty their ballast into the lakes.  That's how most of the invasive species got here in the first place.  Now they're placing the burden on us for stopping their spread. (Sorry for the editorial)

I'm going to print, highlight & send in my own comments as we discussed at the Feb meeting.  If you have the time & want to comment, the comments link is below. Please stay active.

www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/34113.html#Part59Sect594Part190Sect19024p

I might also have misinterpreted some of these things which is why I'm going to take the time to print & study the doc.  My comment #2 is dangerous.

Again, please stay active.  It's our waterway.

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

John,Like anything NY State does ,the fine print comes out in the final draft.The meeting two weeks ago in Albany with the NY Conservation Council it was explained there would be deconamination proccess of spraying an h2o / clorine mixture on the outside of boat hull & livewells.There was also going to be a drying period for boats coming from the Great Lakes Waters to Inland Waters,depending on outside air temps this could be as long as 30 days.There was also talk of a $2 charge at all NYSDEC & NYS Parks Launches for the cleaning done by hired personel.The failure to clean fine would be $500.So they are already saying something different from what they have up on Public Review at an open meeting in Albany!

[Stephen Glassic]

Larry, I think the decontamination and drying period could only be recommendations.

The only way they could be sure of decontamination would be to do it on every boat before it launches. They would also have to require private launches to do it. There could also be an environmental issue in regard to the use of chlorine and it would be corrosive to aluminum boats and other metal hardware so the boat would have to be rinsed with fresh water afterward.

In regard to a drying period, I don't see how it could ever be enforced. How could they possibly keep track of when you used your boat last and what body of water it was. They would have to monitor every state, county, municipal and private launch in the state. And what if you were in another state or Canada? Or they would have to come up with on the spot biological tests.

[John Jarosz]

Cap'n..thanks much for the insight. I will be sure to ask about any disinfecting procedures.   I will also be looking out for those specifics.

It also gave me something else to think and ask about.  If they're planning to use a chlorine/water mixture (which is really diluted bleach), what will be the State's liability coverage if the the paint on my boat or trailer bubble up?

...and one other thing.  If the change is for "visible" invasive species, as is written, then why go thru the decontamination?  I would think decon is for what you can't see.

I'll bite my tongue here on any more editorials.

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Stephen, Read this http://www.saratogian.com/general-news/20140131/advocates-hope-new-...

It started here and the Regulation for State Wide that is up for Public Review will make it a permanent enforceable regulation at Lake George and over time be amended to match what is happening at Lake George through out the state with paid cleaning people with the fee imposed on the boater,because there will be no students to clean boats for free all over the state!

[John Jarosz]

I'm with you all the way, Steve, & I'm going to let them know it in the comments link.

[John Jarosz]

Cap'n..it looks like you posted about 2 seconds before I did & I never saw your Saratoga link until today.  They're nuts in what they're doing.  Implementing that procedure anywhere would be a big hassle as well as "killing" the boat launching and water recreation industry.  There would be so much logistics, red tape & paperwork involved, I don't know how the State (or we) could keep up with the requirements. 

Thanks for that article.  I'll be sending my comments to the DEC with reference to that.

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

The NSDEC Public Review is to make the Boat Inspections & Boat Cleaning Mandatory at Lake George.Then the rules for NYSDEC & State Parks Launches under the same NYSDEC Public Review will open the door to a money grab by the State with Mandatory Boat Inspections & Boat Cleaning at a cost to the boater! Next would be collection of Inspections & Boat Cleaning from Private Launches.Considering the number of boats in NY State that are on a trailer,NY State looks to make millions! I'm in no way again'st cleaning boats to stop the spread of Invasive Species Plant & Animal Live,but if you are always going in and out of the same body of water and none other or only launching in Great Lakes Waters,why would you need to clean your boat every time you launch?

[Tony Scime]

My reading of the proposal is that it only applies to launching sites administered by the State. It also only applies to weeds visible to the eye (my eyes aren't so good anymore). There is no 30-day waiting period of cleansing operation (so no need to comment about what isn't being proposed).

Problem as I see it is that it is almost impossible to comply. If you fish the Niagara River (or Chautauqua Lake) in the summer, they are generally infested with weeds. The weeds get on everything, including equipment and tends to get in-grained in the boat rug (most boats have them). Getting the weeds out of the rug will take a high power vacuum every time you leave the launching site. I think compliance with the proposal would be effectively impossible and in that regard unlawful (the law itself would be arguably illegal/unconstitutional/overly broad/ etc.etc).

Very ill advised reg and I will comment.

Tony

[Frank Stachowiak]

CLEAN MY BOAT FOR $2???? I MIGHT PULL IT OUT MID SEASON JUST TO GET THE BOTTOM CLEANED. 

[Stephen Glassic]

I doubt that the decontamination will be totally effective. You would have to flush the entire boat and trailer inside and out. The carpet, under the floor, the entire livewell and bilge pump system, flush the motor(s), inside the trailer tubing and probably areas I haven't thought of would have to be flushed. Also, for bleach to be effective, it has to remain on the surfaces for several minutes to kill everything. Bleach is very harsh on metals and other materials so everything would have to be rinsed well with fresh water to minimize damage but some would probably remain in nooks and crannies. Since boats are not made with this in mind, there will probably still be cumulative damage. There could also be an environmental impact from the decontamination stations.

I can see making sure there are no visible weeds on trailer and boat but going beyond that may be; 1) a logistical nightmare 2) bad for the the recreational boating, fishing and tourism industries 3) not effective enough to have a significant impact on the problem.

On the political side, the state legislature will create another income stream (which will probably be more than negated by implementation, management and enforcement costs, loss in revenue from boat and trailer registrations and fishing licenses, losses due to reduction of affected industries, etc). They could also boast that they are creating more jobs (which will be mostly minimum wage, seasonal and part time) but it may effectively reduce a greater number of jobs in other areas (many of which are higher quality jobs). They could also boast that they are taking measures to protect the environment (the efficacy of which may be questionable).

These are just my opinions but I feel that all these things must be taken into consideration before implementing a program of this magnitude. The intentions behind it may be good but will it be worth it in the long run?

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Tony,The drying period & chlorine water mixture decontamination is what was said was the direction they are headed and the cost would be paid for by the boater.This was said to all the NY Conservation Council Members and Association Lakes Managers,that were at a meeting with the NYSDEC in Albany,NY two weeks ago from the reports I recieved from some that were there at the meeting.

The NYSDEC Public Review Legislation that is up now is the first step to move in that direction with amendments later once they prove their point at Lake George!

[Stephen Glassic]

Larry, It looks to me like the things that were discussed at the NY conservation Council were just discussions of possible proposals from them.

The proposal on the DEC website that is up for discussion does not say anything about using chlorine to decontaminate. There is a proposed new section that specifically pertains to State Boat Launches and Fishing Access Sites. There is also proposed amendments to an existing section that is currently entitled "Boat Launch Sites". The proposal changes it's title to "Boat Launch Sites and Other Sites From Which a Watercraft May be Launched" This could mean any private or public water access.

It goes further and specifies:

The following regulations in this section apply to all sites from which a watercraft may be launched that are under the jurisdiction of the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation and administered by the Division of Lands and Forests, or the Division of Operations, or both.

I would interpret that to mean any public waters in the state. It may possibly include private waters as well.

Most of the wording in both sections is the same. The following is the most significant part.

No person shall launch, or attempt to launch a watercraft from a state boat launching site, a fishing access site, or any other site from which a watercraft may be launched, or leave from these sites with any plant or animal, or parts thereof, visible to the human eye, in, on, or attached to any part of the watercraft, including livewells and bilges; the motor, rudder, anchor or other appurtenants; any equipment or gear; or the trailer or any other device used to transport or launch a watercraft that may come into contact with the water, unless a written permit is obtained from the department.

This seems to mean anywhere you might launch. And you have to remove all plant and animal life after you retrieve your boat and before you leave the launch. I can imagine what it would be like if everyone has to vacuum their boat out on a busy day at the launch or in the poring rain or a snow storm. Are they concerned that weeds may blow off your trailer or out of your boat on the road and into another body of water?

I can understand taking measures to avoid the spread if invasive species but this could be overkill and a major pain in the...  What if you go on a fishing trip to a body of water for a few days. Will you have to clean your boat inside and out every day? It sure would put a dent in your fishing (or sleeping) time.