West River Nov 3rd

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Its official I guided a client in his boat today using TUBES! Patrick Beltz caught a nice 47 1/2" muskie! Cullen is also still on fire,he will tell you about his great day I'm sure!

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Adam,At some point the NMA will have a Vote and I will live with outcome of that Vote,Nov 30th or Dec 15th.I'm as conservation minded toward muskies as most here and do not see that fishing for 15 more days in cold water conditions is going to destroy the fishery.One might as well hang their fishing rod up if your only going to fish for big muskies when they use to be here in November when they are not because the water temps moved to the right into December.I do not want to target them when they are coming off the spawn,I want to target them when releasing them is the best time for the fish,cool water.The NY M.I. Chapter is the 3rd Monday of every month,just let me know and you can ride to a meeting with me.

The Inland Waters are to be handled differently then the Great Lakes.The last I have heard from all feed back the comprimise could be 3rd Saturday in May Start and December 15th Close.

I do however believe that the Great Lakes Regulations will end up being Uniform,either Nov 30th or Dec 15th for all NY Waters,St.Lawerance River to Pa Line.So there will be lots of pressure from the St.Lawerance Muskie Fishermen to make it Dec 15th,that pressure is ramping up big time now.It is more of an economic impact up on the St.Lawerance River then it is here,guides,lodging,tackle shops etc..There are also St.Clair fishermen looking at any move to November 30th may threaten them later as well,so they too are getting in on the discussion.

[33sjfo56qd2lf]

John Pensyl: “Nobody is asking the NMA to start a movement to extend the season Adam.”

Adam Kaz: Johnny, I love ya buddy, but that is exactly what is being asked here.  Hence the reason for the vote request by several of the members, me being one of them, back in December.  Since then I have come the realization of my previous post, which is the NMA is only going to petition things that promote conservation.

John:  "its not up to the board to decide for us."

Adam Kaz:  Don’t be silly.  If you want me to rebut this I will but, this statement is punching everyone on the board in the mouth.  I am on the board, and I have no power to make decisions for membership.  Please rephrase.

John Pensyl: Is it detrimental to the fishery to target muskies during the month of December?

Adam Kaz: When do people mainly fish the harbor John?  Fall season.  Has there been a decline in the fishery?  Yes.  Would it be detrimental to target muskies in the Harbor in December?  Yes, because it extends the amount of time, the fall season, where people target them in the harbor, putting additional pressure on an already declining section of our fishery something you are recently finding out about since you are a newer member of the NMA.  There really is no way to rebut the above in the eyes of those who are trying to promote conservation, which should be the entire NMA, hence the reason for my previous post.

[Stephen Glassic]

The big question as far as the NMA is concerned is weather the extension will be detrimental to the fishery.  I realize also that many members prefer to stay on the side of caution.  If the season was extended to Dec 15th, it would also include the inland waters.  During that time of the year, the weather is constantly changing and there would probably only be a handful of days where the conditions are right at best. 

Larry already made the point that most musky fisherman that time of the year will not travel that far because of weather conditions and the fact that they would tend to go to waters closer to home.  So most likely the only fisherman that will be out there will be from the Buffalo area and maybe a few from Rochester.  If there is a day or two where the conditions are right you might see 10 boats but probably less.

Also, I would like to suggest that we find out what Kevin Kapuscinski's take on the impact to the fishery would be, and why.  It would be good if he would be willing to attend the March Meeting.  It is my guess that he would tell us that there are many more important things we need to be concerned about.

[33sjfo56qd2lf]

I agree Larry.  I have a feeling the DEC is looking for uniformity here.  That is the conflict I have with this whole thing.  It always has been.  But I would love to still be able to fish later in the season.  

Being that this vote will be done through the NMA I have to vote against it.  If it were something voted on by Muskies Inc, I would vote for it.  The difference is only that of the organization.  

[Stephen Glassic]

Adam,  How could you justify, as a member of both organizations, voting the opposite at each?  It seems that you would be contradicting yourself.  You also would possibly be considered by others like a Benedict Arnold etc.

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Adam, NY M.I. Chapter 69 recently had a final vote and voted to open the season to Dec 15th.Originally when we first got the request from NY DEC Regional 9 Office we told Mike Clancy that we would substain from making a decision on Great Lakes Waters but we would like to see the 54" sizelimit.Then about 3 months after it was brought to the Chapters Board that the membership needed to vote so like every fishing club in Erie County it would be on record our clubs position.So the membership was allowed to have a vote and they voted for Dec 15th.The
letter that was originally sent to NY DEC Regional Office was amended and sent to Mike Clancy.We as the Board of Directors of Chapter 69 allowed the Membership that elected us to Vote and decide the direction they wanted on the issue.There were members that are in both the NMA and M.I. Chapter 69 that voted as well.

[John Pensyl]

I should rephrase, we should not expect the board of directors to have to make this decision without our input as members. This proposal is going to come up when its time for the public to voice its opinion on regulation changes for 2014. Our vote can only decide how the majority of the club feels about a later closing date and which side of the debate we support as a club. We won't be the only people asked for our opinion, we should hope that it holds a little more weight than others though. When topics come up for change anyone can fill out the survey and turn it in, I do it for duck seasons every year. In my opinion your vote should be how you feel on the topic, not how you perceive the club should feel. Let the vote itself speak for the direction of the club.

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

We also as the Board of Directors of the NY M.I. Chapter 69 sent the first letter into the NY DEC Office without any discusion with the Membership at all.We were led to believe that the letter had to be in in 48 hours, so we sent it in after discusiing with the NMA first and that is where we agreed to not make a decision on the Great Lakes.After it was brought to the Boards attention that the Membership had no say in the issue, it was Voted on by the Membership.

[33sjfo56qd2lf]

Steve: "Adam,  How could you justify, as a member of both organizations, voting the opposite at each?  It seems that you would be contradicting yourself.  You also would possibly be considered by others like a Benedict Arnold etc."

Adam:  I hope you read my posts before posting this Steve. 

The point here is that I am a current member of the NMA - conservation club.  Being as such I am voting against extending the season.  If I was a member of Muskies Inc it would be different since muskies inc is not a conservation club.  

Furthermore Steve, a Benedict Arnold would be someone more like you, that is part of conservation club, and wants to vote to do something that is completely the opposite of conservation.

[33sjfo56qd2lf]

John P: "In my opinion your vote should be how you feel on the topic, not how you perceive the club should feel. Let the vote itself speak for the direction of the club."

Adam: I agree John, however, you should read my post again.  If you are an NMA mebmer voting for this, then you are not voting for something that does NOT promote conservation.  That was a the entire point. It defeats the purpose of the club.  I hope everyone can understand that.  Don't worry I can clear it up for those members that have been coming for years and didn't know that at the next meeting.  I would be happy to.

[33sjfo56qd2lf]

Larry, I think the NMA should have no say on what happens at your Muskies Inc meetings.  They are completely different organizations man.  If Muskies Inc wants to petition to change the season then I think they should do it.  This whole thing to me is about venue.  If the NMA is a conservation club, then we all need to start remembering that we a part of that club and what it's about.  I hope you can elaborate a little more about what happened in the past with the NMA at the meeting.  (Admin: some content deleted)  You seem to be the only one that understands my post so far.  It was meant in discuss venue and to remind people where their loyalty as members should lye.  At least you understood that.   Thank you.

[John Pensyl]

Adam you really are taking the definition of conservation to an extreme. We can promote conservation while adapting our seasons to meet with our ever changing system. Fishing for the same fish in December that we were once able to target in November makes you no less the conservationalist. I'm not asking you to lower the size limit or let me keep 3 a day. I'm asking for the same opportunity that was available when these regulations were put in place. With the changes in the system and the current mindset of the modern musky angler our regulations are outdated.