West River Nov 3rd

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Its official I guided a client in his boat today using TUBES! Patrick Beltz caught a nice 47 1/2" muskie! Cullen is also still on fire,he will tell you about his great day I'm sure!

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

John,Your right what needs to happen for the big muskies to show in numbers is Lake Erie's deeper waters have to be colder then the Buffalo Harbor,that historicaly has happened around 46 degrees in behind the Harbor Walls,with 44 to 45 degrees out in the Lake.This water temp cooldown has been getting later every year and now is happening after the season closes on Nov 30th.Sure we get lucky from time to time with a snow fall that rapidly cools the surface water and then combined with high winds cold water pushed displaces water up again'st the outside walls.This leaves a wind induced water temp change just outside the Harbor infront of the walls,behind the walls would be too warm and out deeper in the lake would also be too warm,Example:Nov 13th--17th last year 45 degree water ouside the South Gap,same time 48 degree water in the Harbor and as you headed toward the "A" Can going out deeper in the Lake the water temp rose back up to 48 degrees out in 43ft of water depth.After 4 Days the surface winds were from the NE,with the combination of the Niagara River pulling from the bottom of Lake Erie the water surface temp oustside the South Gap where the muskies were being caught went back up to 49 degrees,then it became a Dead Sea.Durring that 45 degree water period I marked at least 50 Big Hooks and Gizzard Shad Pods,I caught 7 muskies,2 other boats caught 8 muskies.So if we have a year with no snow or very cold nights cooling water surface combined with winds pushing the cold water this way,we will see no fish,they come in much later then the present closing date of November 30th.Opening the season till December 15th doesn't mean it will happen in that time frame either,we could get blown off by high winds & brown water.The number of boats fishing in December if it were open,not many,little or no pressure on the fish at all!

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

Larry and everyone thats for the season extension please take the time to read this before you reply!
Since I have joined the club a few years ago I have always dreamed of catching a 50"+ fish and have always heard the stories of when it was a very common occurrence! In saying that I also remember hearing many stories from you Larry and a few other veteran members of how there was a time where there was at least 20-30 boats in the harbor and fishing for musky! Obviously they were here because the water was right and the fish were there! correct? and the same stories always ended with how poorly the fish were treated and how many were kept by the locusts!!! So how is it possible that you can come on this site and your own and say "not many fisherman, not much pressure at all", but at the same time play it off like the locusts and crazy fishing pressure wont be there? It was there in the 1st place because the water was right and people had a great chance to catch the fish of a lifetime! Is this what your trying to recreate? You want to be able to fish in colder water and have a better chance at the monsters! Well guess what the locusts want that too and your gonna help them get it!! Also at the meeting you had a showing of hands of how many people fished after November 30th and if I recall about 5-6 people raised their hand out of 50 at the meeting! So figure that 10% of people will fish in the 2 extra weeks..and then figure that out using thousands of musky anglers waiting for a chance at the harbor and river late season! I guess everyone now knows where I stand on this issue!

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Mike, Where are the thousands of fishermen coming from for the 15 days of December if it were open? The 15 days of December are not always even going to be fishable, high winds, brown water, snow etc.
Then there is the number of local fishermen that actually fish muskies compared to the late 90's to now.I don't even see a dozen members of the NMA fishing in late November, even less in December.There use to be 20 or more members on the water some days in the fall back in the 90's.Also Pa is now open yearound and was not in the 90's, some are fishing lakes closer to home and do not travel far anymore.The same goes for the Forty Acre Shoals there is no more then 2 to 3 boats there on December days, even with the Giants caught there.I could not even get enough fishermen from Pa and Ohio to fish a Chautauqua Tournament in October because of the $70 the NY Fishing Lisence Fee, I had to cancel fall tourneys.I just do not see large numbers of fishermen showing up for the 15 days of December if it were open, to many things again'st them, weather, launch facilities,etc..
So looks like you would like to keep fishing for fish that are not usually here and not have much of a chance to catch any muskies 54" and Up! Much easier stress on the fish in December then in late June!

Capt Larry

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

The reason I say thousands of people is because your rallying the troops from PA in emails trying to get them to the meeting.....you dont think that they are going to come to the meeting, become members, vote and then not fish do you? And you already know im for moving the season start later so that means nothing...

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

And if your saying like you have 10x already that the extra weeks most likely wont even be fishable.THEN WHY GO THREW ALL THIS?

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

Mike,If the weather does permit ,I and others should have the right to go out and fish in the time period where colder water temps needed to move in the fish have moved to have a chance to have a very big muskie pay a visit to our boats for a short visit! Would you hunt Ducks when they are not here? They had to move that season later.Look for Deer Bow Season & Shotgun/Rifle Seasons to be moved later as well very soon,already being talked about.The 15 days of December will not over stress the fishery!

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

Larry thats my point! you made a point to say that only a few people in the nma fished after the 30th, you said that to show that it not too much pressure is being put on the fish between nov 30th-dec 15th..but now in your above post your saying "would you hunt ducks when they are not there" the answer is NO I WOULDN'T! and FEW will fish musky ig they are not there! By extending the season your hoping they will be there!!!! Therefore more people will fish!!!! OBVIOUSLY INCREASING THE PRESSURE

[John Pensyl]

Mike its not some magical switch that is going to make all the muskies load into the harbor in December. Many of the big time musky anglers that used to frequent the harbor don't fish it anymore because the factors that once attracted these big fish no longer exist. The harbor was a hot spot then, in magazine articles and consistantly producing big fish. That's why it drew in so many anglers looking for that fish of a lifetime. Today its more like a needle in a haystack, the fish are spread out. No longer concentrated inside the was leading to the fish in a barrel scenario that made it so much easier in the past. If I was from out of state Im going to st. Clair, I'm going to the Larry during december. For that matter if I'm from wny I'm going to st. clair, I'm going to st Larry! These "Locusts" you refer to are passionate musky anglers just like you and me. There release techniques and catch and release knowledge continue to improve just as ours. The boat that did so well outside the harbor this past Nov? It was full of "locusts", they were gentle with our girls out there, even released a true giant in a manner that would make any nma member proud. While we are worrying about the locusts finding out we might have fish, they are doing there best to keep it from the locals they've had good success outside the harbor walls. Are we locusts when we take a trip to a fishing mecca? I really hate that term.

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

John YES we are and can be considered locusts when we go to another fishery and fish...the point is we are not trying to change THEIR LAWS AND REGULATIONS!! and nor do I think the we should have a vote in theirs! But for some reason non local fisherman are being recruited to vote on ours!

[John Pensyl]

We don't have any final say in what will happen. What we have is some influince on the authorities that make up the rules we will all follow. Some of these out of state guys may have more knowledge or a different perspective on the whole scenario. Im open to hear input from anybody that has spent time on the water or may have first hand knowledge in regards to our fishery. They aren't making any decisions, don't bother getting upset about why they might want it extended. Instead let's hear why you'd like to keep it as is? Additional pressure? Pressure is non existant on these fish, they could use a little pressure. Harm to the fish? No better time to catch and release a giant. You were all for extension at the Jan meeting, what made you flip? Maybe others will change there mind as well if u share.

[Mike "the facilities" Fortunate]

Actually I was against it in January! And where did you get the assumption I was for it?

[Capt. Larry D. Jones]

 I have spent more time fishing the Buffalo Harbor than anyone in the NMA or outside NMA,no one has more hours on the water up there then me.I'm only saying this because I have seen all the changes that have taken place from the first Harbor Muskie I caught in 1990 until now.I also have records on every fish that has payed a visit to my boat in all those years.I have seen the water that use to be stained all the time into the mid 80's,go to gin clear,changing the depth of fishing from 7 ft to 25ft depths etc.Once Lake Erie quit freezing to the point where chunks the size of cars were coming down the river for weeks in the spring,the fishery took a big turn to the worse.I have recorded these water temprature changes over the years and have come up with when the main forage base the gizzard shad come to or near the Harbor.Other then when there is a wind induced water temp change dropping the water temps in an area to the most desirable temp of 46 degrees and under,there are mostly no fish present.The mean water temprature for Lake Erie getting to colder temps then 46 degrees,making the Harbor usually 1 to 2 degrees warmer that attracts the Gizzard Shad and following Muskies,is getting later every year.I do not even have to put my own data up,just go to the NMA Catch & Release Log and look at 2005 to 2011 and look at the water temps at the latest date posted for November.You will find that we have not been close to getting cold enough almost all of those years and it shows by not many big muskies over 50" being caught & released.The true harm to the Muskie Fishery is those who fish the Buffalo Harbor the 1st two weeks of the season and the month of August in the Upper Niagara River.The only thing that is going to bring back the fishery is Habitat Restoration,even Stocking will not help with the muskie fingerlings have no where to go or not forage base to feed on.The 15 days of December are going to have no real impact on fish that are stressed the least in cold water,but then again you still have to catch them,they could still not be here by Dec 15th or the weather may not even let you get out,but everyone including mysellf should have the right to fish!